Hello Cloynx,
Please note that I spoke to the moderators of this thread. They removed the other thread but you put up a cached link of the same.
As per suggestion from the moderator, I would be making a Police Report against you for defamation and sending unwarranted emails to my company.
Background:
Amit Nagpal is a permanent resident (PR) of Singapore, which has a rule that only citizens can buy public flats at cheaper price.
Amit Nagpal would have nothing to do with this rule. He wrote to the local newspaper and demanded that he be given the same rights as citizens!
Amit Nagpal then discovered that teenagers at the hardwarezone forum had passed some negative remarks about his unreasonable demands. (And why shouldn't they? His behaviour was indeed outrageous.)
Amit Nagpal responded by demanding that all posts (i.e. the entire thread) be removed.
The government-owned hardwarezone unhesitatingly complied with its foreign talent's demand.
The government-owned harwarezone initiated blanket censorship, removed the entire thread and curtailed the rights to free speech of numerous citizens - all for the sake of its one foreign talent.
Someone then posted a link to the cache copy of the censored thread. Just a link.
Amit Nagpal consulted the government-owned hardwarezone on what he should do.
The government-owned hardwarezone considered the posting of this hyperlink by the citizen a crime that warranted police intervention.
Accordingly, the government-owned hadwarezone advised its foreign talent to make a police report against the teenage citizen who had dared show no respect to its foreign talent.
Amit Nagpal took the advice given by the government-owned forum. His proud annoncement , as quoted above, is here, assuming the link has not been taken down yet
Hardwarezone is populated mostly by teens. In additon, because it is owned by the government, the IP address of participants can be passed to the police and will be passed to the police, as demonstrated by the willingness of the government-owned forum to shut down free speech simply at the demand of its foreign talent.
Amit Nagpal is 33 years old.
No point bullying teenagers half your age, Amit Nagpal.
I, member of Young Pay-And-Pay, hereby challenge you. Amit Nagpal. to come to sammyboyforum for a verbal show-down with adults! Dare you, Amit Nagpal, accept the challenge and take on people closer to your age? Amit Nagpal, come here or here, and let us see if you are going to be just as police-happy with us as you have been with teens!
(Update 28/09/08: The old forum is now closed. Singapore's last bastion of free speech continues at The 3-in-1 Kopitiam.)
Amit Nagpal, be prepared to make 100 unfounded and unjustifiable police report per day for the next 100 days!
About Amit Nagpal:
Amit Nagpal's webpage is here (assuming not taken down yet)
Amit Nagpal is working at KCPL, Singapore.
Amit Nagpal's unofficial personal email address: amit@amitnagpal.com, anagpal75@gmail.com
Note:
I, being the most obedient dog in Young Pay-And-Pay, of course fully support what the government-owned hardwarezone has done
My YPAP-style sick twisted logic is as follows:
- Singapore citizens are cheap and Singapore citizenship is of no value.
- Foreign talents are expensive and of great value to Singapore.
- Thus, Singapore citizens have rights to free speech, but these rights must be curtailed immediately upon a foreign talent's demand.
- If Singaporeans refuse to bow down to the demands, any government-owned company must rightly equate such insubordination as a crime and accordingly advise its precious foreign talent to make police reports.
- In fact, if the foreign talent dare not make a police report, a government-own company should make the police report on behalf of its foreign talent.
- Only in these way can we be of service to foreign talents and make them feel welcome.
- Note that since citizens cannot/ will not/ dare not emigrate, citizens' feelings can and should be ignored in the equation.
- QED.
54 comments:
Swear to God, I knew this day will come. All my life, I asked myself, the full 21/2 yrs of my wasted youth plus ten years of twice a year training in the SAF (Suckers and Fools), What was it for? Working in the service industry, victimised by the government adopted mantra, the customer is always right, (f**k Gandhi), suffering first the abuse from the customer, then another round from whoever the f**k above you. And this government still have the temerity to encourage us to have more children. How much more do we stupiporeons need to take before we wake up? Is this our fate to always pull down our pants and bend over? Who created this enviroment? What kind of leadership allows their own citizens to be abused? WAKE UP!
hello young-pap,
This is not about challenging or bullying anyone.
This is about personal defamation. There was a lot of backlash, mostly abusive and racist, on my letter written to ST.
What happened after that is absolutely unacceptable and unforgivable. Some members of the forum extracted my personal details like my photos, my family photos, my handphone number and my office address and phone numbers and put them up for all to see.
Then, this gentleman (Cloynx) claimed on the forum that he has emailed to all my company IDs and to my boss.
According to those with law knowledge, this constitutes civil defamation and I am in my rights to lodge a Police Report and take legal action against them.
Not only that, I see that many have used abusive and derogatory language against me and my family. Please note that these are valid grounds for a police report and action and HARDWARE ZONE has promised me full support and cooperation with the authorities if they want any details on the members.
What you have done on your blog is something similar. You have put up my professional details and email IDs.
I urge you to kindly remove these details up from your blog and also advise your co-members at the other forums like delphi and sammyboy to not indulge in this slanging match.
Look forward to your cooperation.
Warm Regards,
Amit
Can anyone please enlighten me on how much will it cost to sue somebody on grounds of defamation. And if I win , how do I get payment from somebody with no money? Take away their families and sell them into slavery?
Want to have the same benefits of a citizen? Be a citizen first. Go to any country, it is always the citizen first, PR second. Get your sons to serve the army too and they will be citizens.
Of course, our government likes to treat our FTs better than their citizens. Go and ask them again and they might let you have it.
But, be a citizen first.
Amit Nagpal,
There are a few points to make:
1. First, you wrote that "many have used abusive and derogatory language against me and my family". Then, in the very next sentence, you wrote: "What you have done on your blog is something similar". There is nothing even remotely similar; I did not use a single abusive or derogatory word (let alone "language") against you nor did I mention your family. Therefore, your strange connection that I have done something similar makes me very fearful of you. That is to say, I regard you as a very dangerous man prone to having wild imagination and to making illusory associations. I happen to have some friends who are doctors, and have just spoken to a few who are familiar with such conduct. They told me such behaviours are typical of near-psychopath. They thus advise me to be pro-active and to make a police report against you so that the police can investigate you, rather than wait passively for you to come after and harm me physically. Better be safe than sorry, they said. As per their suggestion, pls note that I would be making a Police Report against you that I fear for my life because you may harm me due to your "near-psychopathic" (my doc-fren's word) behaviour of having hallucination that I have made abusive/derogatory remarks at you and your family.
2. The police investigates crimes and prosecute criminal cases - crimes such as the physical danger posed to society by near-psychopaths with hallucination. The police does not investigate civil cases such as "civil defamation" (your words). For the latter, you should be seeking a lawyer, not the police. Thus, your attempt to make a police report is nothing short of an abuse of the law. Please note that making such false police report with ulterior motives (eg to curtail free speech) is an criminal offence (because it wastes valuable police time which should be spent investingating crimes) punishable under Singapore's law with a fine, a jail time or both. You may wish to know that PRs are usually deported after their conviction and imprisonment.
3. Your email and occupation are public information right from your web, your facebook, and vaious other public websites. Reproduction of information that are already publicly available - and indeed, made public by non other than your good self - cannot and does not constitute any violation of terms of any blogs or forum. I trust that Blogger and delphi - both American companies - will fully respect our 1st amendment rights to exercise free speech, unlike the government-owned hardwarezone. I will therefore not be removing any of these publicly avaialble details from my blog. Should you disagree, you are free to challenge my action in the American court, which I want to let you know, is very different from Singapore's court. You are of course also welcome to make yet another police report - against me. But please note point 2.
4. I look forward to your cooperation with the police. In particular, if you can assure them that you do not think my actions are "similar", and that you therefore have no intention to harm me or to take "revenge", I would be willing to drop the case against you. I, however, would need such assurance to be in writing.
Sincerely,
Young Pay-And-Pay
A very good replay. Reflects exactly my feelings. Foreigners like Amit should know their place in Singapore society.
With people like you, who cares about Obama or McCain?
Mr Young Pay and pay for President!
Amit Nagpal,
The above is my formal official response to you. Now, I want to talk more informally to share the following with you:
1. Singaporeans do not welcome foreigners.
2. It was PAP which had welcomed you with open arms, not Singaporeans.
3. There is no contradiction between pt 1 and 2 - Singapore is no democracy, in case you haven't noticed.
4. Point 1 occurs because:
a. Massive influx of foreigners lowers wages of Singaporeans at all levels from blue-collar to white-collar;
b. Massive influx of foreigners takes away the jobs of Singaporeans because foreign workers are cheaper and have no National Service commitment.
c. Massive influx of foreigners makes Singapore too crowded.
d. Massive influx of foreigners who need not serve NS and yet receive even more than citizens (eg. in scholarships) cheapens citizenship.
e. Foreigners are treated preferentially by the judiciary system - Same crime, lesser punishment for foreigners. For a preview, just see how the govt-owned hardwarezone bend backwards for you the almighty foreigner - delete an entire thread and curtail numerous singaporeans' rights to free speech and promise to pass these singaporans' particulars to the police. It would not have done so if u were a Singaporean.
f. Many foreigners think they are kings because Singaporeans have begged(???) them to come, so they start criticising and chastising Singaporeans in newspapers. Some even started demanding equal rights in arrogant tones without knowing abt the seething anger beneath which started even *before* they made their arrogant speeches and outrageous police reports.
5. Point 2 occurs because:
a. Foreigners are cheaper and this government cares only about one and only one thing: profit.
b. Foreigners can replace Singaporeans who have left the country out of disgust for the government. Such replacement is necessary both for manpower reason and more importantly, for election purporse. Foreigners who are happy to become Singaporeans are happy with PAP and will vote for it. This is a massive blood transfusion, replacing "bad blood" with "good blood" (from the dictator's perspective).
6. I do not think I need to explain further that point 1 is an understatement. It should, in reality be: "Singaporeans dislike the massive influx of foreigners". Maybe that is also an understatement. More likely, "Singaporeans are absolutely disgusted with the massive...". Hence the treatment you received given your initial (and continual) arrogance and audacity.
7. Accordingly, I want to exercise my free speech and to tell you - with no abusive or derogatory languuage - that I, Young Pay-And-Pay, do not welcome you, Amit Nagpal, to my country. I do not welcome your wife. I do not welcome your children. And it's nothing personal; I do not welcome all the foreigners, not just you. And it's nothing racist; I do not welcome all the foreigners, regardless of their race, language or religion.
8. I further want to exercise my free speech to tell you - again with no abusive or derogatory language - that I wish from the bottom of my heart that you, Amit Nagpal, will leave my country, that your wife will leave my country, that your children will leave my country. And again, it's nothing personal, because i wish the same thing for every foreigner.
9. I would have point 7 and 8 bottled inside my heart and as a gentleman (ahem), I would have never dreamt of saying them to another foreigner right in his face, unless I was first provoked by his arrogant demands for equal rights with citizens. As it is, Singaporeans are already full of anger like a volcanoe about to explode any time and all it takes is a tiny spark to start the fire. You, Amit Nagpal, with your arrogance, had unfortunately (for you!) become that spark! In English, I think it's called being a scapegoat? Or should it be a sandbag?
10. If I were you Amit Nagpal, after reading the above 8 points, I would have realised my error and insensitivity and arrogance, withdraw the police report filed in bad taste, thank Young Pay-And-Pay for his candid and illuminating sharing, and henceforth shut up and continue to make money, and then emigrate to usa after having made full use of the goodies that the foolish Singapore government dishes out to you.
I hope the above helps you understand the issue further. And don't you dare say I am "abusive/derogatory" or "similar". I just checked - not a single abusive or derogatory word uttered.
Note: I deleted, edited and reposted my above comment. So the comment by Mr. anonymous above it actually referred to my 2nd comment, rather than the 1st.
pwned - hmm, is this derogatory? bawahah
Bravo, well said! Thanks for articulating so well and so fully what most Singaporeans feel and think.
Amit Natpal
Do not try the 'argue a dead horse to life' routine with us Singaporeons. We grew up with that all our lives.
Since you love making police reports so much, here one for you to make. Fuck you! Here's another one. Fuck you! Happy now?
I have not read the contents of the thread that the moderators of hardwarzone deleted. However, according to Amit, there were racist remarks in there. If that is the case, I believe that there is justification to have that reported to the police, because flaming racist tension is considered a crime in Singapore.
Other than that, I cannot see any reason that justifies a police report.
However, if Amit did make a police report based on defamation, and if the police decide to investigate, then this is telling. All the heated words about how PRs get preferential treatment has just been confirmed.
So, Amit, what DID you report to the police, which they took the trouble to file as a case?
Care to share with me?
PS – I have not judge you or anyone – yet.
Who is this Amit? Is he so great, being a PR, he demands so much, we citizens can't even open our mouths.Never mind, let him be the citizen, and we original sporeans can give way to him and his family, and we can migrate to other countries if the govt like FT more than us,singaporeans.
Dear Young-PAP and others on this forum,
I have not yet made any Police Report against anyone.
I am still contemplating.
Young-pap, I really don't wish to stoke the flame further. I would like to end the arguments and slanging here.
I appreciate your feelings that you don't welcome any foreigners in your country.
This is your country after all.
I am sorry if you all felt so bad about my letter in ST.
Regards,
Amit
Aiyah so gham one meh! This is obviously a set up to justify either (a) registration of identities of anon bloggers (b) giving more ammo to community moderation (c) setting up IC3 (d) our gahmen just want more laws to control free speech online.
You got played lah. Wayang only. How to sell a pail with holes, very simple just shout fire.
You dont believe me, you see la, this will be picked up by the ST tomolo, then you see how they will play it.
You all dunno meh? Ask yourself, so many blogs in Singapore, how come so ngamh it happen here one?
Solo Bear,
The comments were not only racist but also insulting, abusive and threatening. On top of that, personal details like my photo, my family photo, my handphone number, my office address and my boss' name, email and handphone number were released on the forum.
Believe me, all of that are very valid and justifiable reasons for a Police Report.
Having said so, I do understand from young-pap's blog, the reason for these outbursts.
Amit
Young-pap, thank you for articulating the feelings of most Singaporeans. Just as most Singaporeans, the foreigners are learning the hard way that the PAPs have pulled a fast one over their eyes. If they can treat their own citizens like trash, do not expect much from them if you are a foreigner. Our society has gone into regression and only when our leaders have some balls to go against old Lee and his senility, will our country make headway into becoming a real First World country and not a facade.
Amit,
I reserve my comments on your intention to make a police report because I still haven’t seen what was deleted by hardwarezone moderators. All I can say young pap is right that your personal info is made public by YOU and you have no case on that.
It would only be a police case if there was inflammatory racist remarks made, or if threats of physical harm was made against you and/or your family.
But like I said, I have not read those contents, so I reserve my judgement.
Actually I sympathize with Amit until I realize that he lied about the police report.
Being a southern Indian myself, I've bought a resale flat with some financing with OCBC done. Currently I'm subletting my flat to a few fellow countrymen. Perhaps You would like be more sociable and share your flat?
I'm currently with Kulicke & Soffa.
This Amit and foreigners like him probably underestimated the local talents in Singapore. Cannot really blame him for thinking that we have no talents and weak in the English language. He may have seen ministers and MPs like Lim Swee Say and Ong Ah Heng speak English on TV and assume that that is the standard of our English in Singapore of our elites so what more of people in the streets. Well, let me tell Amit that I can pick out kids from our primary schools who can speak and write better than he.
What is this nonsense about making police reports? Reminds me of an incident long ago that I witness, coincidentally, also an Indian foreigner trying to skip the queue to board a bus at the interchange. When a local gentleman stopped him, he started rattling abusive language and physically stopped the local from getting on the bus. The local, being of a bigger build, just walked through. On board the bus, the Indian national actually called the police on his friend's phone, a local Indian, judging from his accent. He was walking along the aisle of the bus up and down trying to get the local gentleman to take the call from the police. I do not understand why these foreigners cannot understand that calling the police are only for emergencies, not petty civil quarrels. Surely in India, the same applies too or can they call the Indian police for such spats?
Mr Amit, go ahead and spend your next few years building up negative energy by going into defamation suits. Your life will be completely wrecked by the time you emerge from those lawsuits. Don't be naive.
Amit
Now that you have seen the light, I am willing to offer some advice. Keep a low profile while you're here. Stop stepping on toes. Stay tuned to the local blogsphere and learn from our experiences. Who knows you may even learn enough about about local politics to apply it back home. About how to fuck your own people and get rich and have 66.6% of them saying thankyou in return. So, you had a good vegetarian meal with your family this evening?
I tot India touted as next super power?
Why these people flooding our country like a bloody tsunami?
And to top it all, went to his website, discovered his talent is really quite limited. Even my 11 yr old son can do better slides than him ... my kid can do animations and music and what not .... don't know if he wants some tuition from my kid.
And to the PAP jokers .. please define FOREIGN TALENT. Talent is really very FOREIGN to these new immigrants.
If foreigners such as Mr. Nagpal would like to know what their future is going to be like under PAP - future, as in *after* they become Singapore citizens and choose to settle down here permanently for the next 30 years - they can come see this "foreign talent orientation video". Be patient - halfway into the video, Mr. Lee spoke to give his one-word response to the situation. Catch it. Hilarious! (and yet so sad that that's the only thing he can say).
I talked about this video in my lastest post too. You guys may be interested to know that PAP internet brigade regards this video as depicting "graphic sexual activities" unsuitable for minors! Read about it here
Dear Amit,
Before I make my comment, I would like to emphasise that I did not know what the matter going on between you and the teenagers at the hardwarezone.
You mentioned that your personal details are being released. I find it very strange because this is personal details (you have already mentioned 'personal'). So why your photos, office address, handphone number, etc are all on the internet?
I can think of only 2 possibilities, either you released it on your own or someone close to you 'release for you on your behalf'. If you release it on your own, I don't see you have the case. If your friends/relative that is closed to you, release your personal details, then I think you should bring your case against that particular person.
Thats is why I do not like to release my personal information because I think it my 'personal stuff' and Internet is like a big space with thousands of people viewing forums, newsgroup, etc at the same time. It definitely not safe to post your personal details and this is common sense.
Sincerely hope you understand what I mean and wish you all the best.
Young PAP, can I suggest you run for election? You speak sense.
You will have solid support.
Amit,
Though it is very unfair and mean spirited for the people of HWZ to put up your pictures. It's perfectly legal.
But let's not harp on that. Instead why don't you ask yourself why your letter to the papers raised such mean spirited behaviour in the first place?
I'm sure you've read the reasons posted by YPAP on why Singaporeans dislike foreigners. Some reasons might not apply to all but there can't be smoke without fire no?
So imagine you, a foreigner with no NS obligation and a backup plan (your Indian citizenship) asks aloud for cheaper housing from HDB (a perk that is supposed to be for citizens only), how can you not expect a backlash?
You want the perks without giving anything to the country. That doesn't sound right does it? You can talk about how much you put into your job etc, but how can you compare with the citizens who put in equally more on top of their NS liabilities and what not?
Ask yourself what you can give before asking for more. Relinquish your citizenship elsewhere get your children to serve NS and you'd get your HDB flat.
If you think that's too much to ask from you, you can find some other country with more generous people.
Amit,
when in rome, do what the romans do.
do not think you're so good just because you got a PR and say you deserve equal rights as a citizen.
no way in hell is that ever gonna happen.
you just happen to get a crap place in singapore because someone better than you can't take all this shit from the government left.
cheers
It has really been a long time since i actually choose to look at blog instead of rushing month end closing. LOL. What i can say is young-pap has just spoken what most if not all the singaporeans wants to say but have no balls to say it...
Very simple way to end all this. Amit, go to the CMPB and tell them you want the PINK IC. By going the GREEN 11B way. Do your NS like the rest of us. The great bard put it quite well. 'For he today that sheds his blood with me, Shall be my brother.
well, i do not know much as what happened earlier.
a few things to note.
Please respect the local citizens in a your new country. becoz singapore is a law abiding and friendly country (to foreigners), doesn't mean u can whack the locals and take advantage.
Maybe you can try this tactic in your original country and see whether it works. if it works, i see not much point for you to shift over here.
as we local citizens are very law abiding, do not think that the use of calling up the police will make us cowed away. we too knows the rules and even better. if you in the first place do not use the threat of police. we make not be so unhappy.
Please reflect your attitude towards the rest first. you maybe can do that in INDIA but remember that you are in singapore. Also, i think that you will be here for a while as most indians have the mindset to use singapore as a platform for US or UK or go back to india to tell others that u work overseas and earn more rupees.
Please check your behavior. a local boycott can mean drastic events including losing of your job as employers may find it difficult to go against the world.
=================================
TO BE FAIR,
I think what he brought up may not be totally wrong. the local housing is really going up to the moon. even we local feel the pinch, PRs will feel it too. although we have subsidize housing, but how subsidize are they??? HDB still pockets a large sum from it.
PRs should be given some discounts but should not be on par with citizens. they too, are part of the country. been a PR mean u pay taxes, same as us, but PR has an escape clause while locals do not.
the issues lies on the housing control. with mad people buying houses at mad prices, everyone will be affected as greed kicks in to push up the value. it is a full cycle.
maybe some subsidy, maybe some form of control or maybe others but he is right from certain point. Not all PRs earn that kind of money. some are just like us.
Just wait, prices will fall as economy is going down.
Lastly, i think both sides should have enough. best that we can stop here. we should live in peace, no point to get so work up towards each other.
Saga
I've nothing against foreigners - I've met some really nice, genuine, unassuming types, some of whom, I've even found, can be easier to get along with than many Singaporeans I've encountered (not that I dislike Singaporeans; after all, I'm one myself).
What I really have an issue with is people like Mr. Amit Nagpal, who should consider themselves privileged to be able to live & work here, yet seem to think that somehow, despite all the perks they get, they should complain about not having "equal rights" as Singaporean citizens. You want equal rights? Go through N.S. like our local boys do, receive the same pay any local with your designation / position receives, forgo all your expat benefits & live like the rest of us. Try that & see if you don't regret opening your ungrateful mouth in the first place.
But clichéd as it may sound, it takes two hands to clap. For every foreigner who thinks he / she is above us Singaporeans, you can rest assured that our wonderful government encouraged it. Doesn't make said foreigner any less a prick but the government's blatant preferential treatment of "foreign talent" is impossible to ignore. From housing to transport to employment, foreigners in Singapore have it better than locals. Much better. And the zheng hu ("government", for those not familiar with Hokkien) wants us to stay loyal to this country? I'd sooner flee than remain here.
So, Mr. Amit Nagpal, kindly know your place - you are not Singaporean & therefore, are not entitled to the same "rights" as us. Sure, the government did an amazing job of kissing your foreign backside by removing the rights of hardwarezone's forum members to free speech, all because of your inane complaint & uncalled-for bitching & whining but don't be too quick to assume the rest of us are the same. We're not.
Deal with it.
Nagpal, Amit
Orchard Road
Singapore, NA 229922
SG
96692054 Fax:
Mr Amit,
I personally DO NOT welcome you to Singapore. And I believe most true-blue Singapore will do the same as me.
If I were you, I should keep a low-profile while in others countries. Just go with the flow and don't ever try to be special and think you are really some-body here. To us, you are just a Indian from India, nothing great and nothing much to be proud off.
I would not recommend you doing the same stance in Australia as those people these might not be so friendly as us Singaporean, they might even throw stones at you or might will react in violence.
Yours sincerely,
Bengkia369
ATTENTION
If you guys still have lots of steam to let off after reading, you can come to my youtube page and read what I wrote to a foreigner:
chaingang90:
"i also have another friend who intended to just come here and attend his sisters wedding, but ended up finding a job within a few weeks,,, so how??? seems fair to me...."
wendyneo:
"chaingang90, What you mean "so how"? So, the govt suck up to foreigners and gave your foreign friend a job within a few wks even though a qualified Singaporean is available. Instead of keeping quiet abt it, u come to my channel and mock me with a "SO HOW"?!? I TELL YOU HOW!! SO, one day, we r going to kick out this traitor govt, along with your unwelcomed foreign friend who stole our job. THAT'S HOW! Happy with my frank blunt reply? U asked for it when u challenged me "so how". lol"
Read more at the comment section of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DyWJp-aXU
And thanks, young-pap, 4 allowing this comment to "shamelessly" bring some traffic to my video. lol.
Chaingang90 and Amit,
I am 25 this year. I may not be very experienced but I read. I believe I can “help you” to think better.
Why not putting you into my shoe? Being a Singaporean, you have to spent 2.5 yrs in the army which pays you as little as $500 a month. After fulfilling the 2.5 yrs, you have to go back to camp once a year (0 - 40days) for training for the next 10 yrs. If you did manage to pass the physical fitness test (IPPT), you are left untouched. Otherwise, you will have to go back for extra training. (Unfortunately, most of us don’t pass)
Just think of it, you have to study, work, look after the family, return to camp once a year and find time to train yourself up to pass IPPT. Do you not think this is too much a liability to you? Singaporeans are just like anyone in this world, we only have 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year and a limited lifespan….
Ask yourself. What you could have been doing when we are in camps playing hide and seek with wild boars, running up and down the hill, saying a hi to every trees in the jungle and enjoying our dates with our dear dear M16? Could it be spending time with your kids or kissing your love ones or watching tv at home or spending time to do what you want or with friends or thinking of ways to earn more monies to make your life better or even ways to impress your superior?
What is your feeling when somebody (employer, could be a foreigner) tells you that foreigners are preferred over locals just because you have to go back to camp to stay for a week or two or foreigners are cheaper to be employed? Have you ever thought of these?
Do you have friends telling you that foreigners from the same company ganged up and “force” a local to leave? Do you? If not, I am telling you that I heard a few of such cases.
Daddy(s) and mommy(s) are told that with their child's results, their child is allegeable to apply but may not good enough to get a place in our own local universities when 20% of the places are allocated for foreigners. If you are a daddy what would you think? You work hard to contribute to the county, serve the army and in the end, there is no place for your child but for the foreigners?
When you are old and have few or no money, you are told not to retire because nothing is free in Singapore. What would you think?
Look around your estate. It is a very sad thing to see many elderly people searching around the bins and garbage dumps for cans and papers.
If you are in the mid 20s like me, what is your view of your future (as in when you get old) and your future generation? Do you want to be like our senior citizen and wanting your children to work as doubly hard like you? You can defend that you are different but what if you fail in the end and have nothing to all back on?
My perception is what I have contributed is not adequately compensated and feel mistreated as compared to what you have enjoyed all the while i.e no National servce.
Given that we have little benefits in return, people (pr/foreigner) like you choose to ask for more. Do you think this can be tolerated?
With all these points written above, do you still think it is fair when we are being treated like a foreigner in term of employment when we, Singaporean have so much other liabilities.
So, please don’t complain unless you are TRULY one of us.
regards,
tiredman
Generally find singaporeans to be smart and capable. A Singaporean myself, I never made it to top schools. I only started getting worried when I did not get good O level results. I came out to work after n.s. but with good attitude, I work during day and studied at nite to be where I am today. It is true that office politics kill, and not only played by FTs. I used to work in MNCs, and inside, it is common, and not only against Singaporeans but also against their own kind. Gist of my posting is that as it gets tougher, we hv to rely on ourselves. Govt and community can do so much. Millionaires and entrepreneurs can still be found in our midst when the going gets tough. Take care, and soldier on, All.
Dear Amit,
To keep it short and sweet after reading the influx of comments.
Please leave the matter be, because Hardwarezone is the most open forum in Singapore, and hence provides the most honest feedback from citizens of all ages, not just teenagers. It is where we, Singaporeans, can express our thoughts without worry. Respect our country and our way of living. No country is perfect. We have our bad points, so do yours.
Regards,
Jonathan
Some people just never learn. You guys should come read what his fellow Indian PR, Manish Grover, said.. Frankly, I think this guy is worse - the way he talks down to Singaporeans and make sarcastic remarks about us. His contact follows:
OBC International Trading Pte Ltd
5 Shenton Way No. 21-06
UIC Building
Singapore 068808
+65 6223 0084
+65 6223 0086
manish@obcgroup.com.sg
By the way, this is not unique to people from India. Those from China also suck up to pap and lecture Singaporeans, just that they do so in Lianhe Zaobao instead of Straits Times. We Singaporeans are truly 2nd-class citizens in our own country!
hi young-pap
why are you guys obsessed with publishing the personal details of PRs who don't have nice things to say about singaporeans? does it really serve any purpose?
anon, i can't speak for others, but for me, it is so that those who want to email them to tell them what singaporeans think of them, can do so conveniently. Otherwise, it would be a 1-sided affair, with them scolding us on newspapers, and yet not hearing us scold them back (not all will search for his own name, as what the first guy did. Maybe the 2nd guy, till now, is still happily oblivious of what we think of him, while here we are, suffering from his scolding! Not fair!)
dear Amit,
pls take note abt suing for defamtion. it means to intentionally bring the name or the goodwill of the person down/falsifying.
therefore, i believe my fellow citizen netizens who have been thinking abt being PRs in the near future has yet to defame u anyhow, whatsoever. we have not DEFAME u in any sense but rather voicing our own opinions and thoughts. if it irritates you whatsoever, pls reframe fr entering this blog coz we have no intention of including you in the 1st place and it is only so unintentional that you came across.
i thank young-pap for such a post in his 30th july post which has indeed done us proud. we will fight on as citizens and PRs-to-be.
Indeed, some people never learn. And so, now we have yet another loud mouth PR in the form of CHAN MEI KUEN who wrote to the Straits Times to "remind"(!!) Singaporeans to how we should treat PRs. Fuck her! You can read what she wrote here.
So, do something! Why just complain and complain? Emigration can be a tool too - just like a worker on strike. PAP cannot keep importing foreigners without coming to the bargain table, can it? Erm, maybe it can! Anyay, If you want to leave Singapore , come here to emigrate. If you want to stay and fight, come here.
If you are a new Singaporean who have just arrived, welcome! Here's your new Emperor, your new National Flag, your new National Pledge, and some quick National Education, introduction to our National Spirit, our National Song (KTV style) and the first (Betrayal) and last (Good Bye My Love) chapter of our national book to round off your quick orientation to Singapore. If you want to keep some pets in singapore, here's a frog, and there's a dog. Here are some of your younger MPs (who can dance damn well!) and there are the older MPs who look very dignified! For those sleepy ones, they are here. You will have a bright future in Singapore.
Oh, Singapore has lots of entertianment too - if you have no interest in politics and just want to listen to music, here's an old songs (just ignore that cry baby), and that's an even older one (just ignore those strange masks). If you are love poetry, you are in luck! If you are the sporty type, Singapore has it too. If you are the hardworking mathematical type, you will fit right in! Did I mention that Singapore also has Asia's most beautiful woman?
Finally, if you don't have enough money, don't worry. Our Ministers Money No Enough 2 (too). Just look around harder, there are lorry-loads of golden opportunity in Singapore!
Let's all Shine for Singapore!
I have great respect and admiration for Singapore and its citizens. And I believe that the vast majority of Singaporeans are kind and respectful of individuals, regardless of race, creed, or religion.
Though I do not have an opinion on whether Amit’s point is correct or not, I'm just appalled at how some people think that the posting of his personal information was relevant in countering the topic he brought up in public. How is it important that his email address, his boss's email address, and, heck, even his family's picture should be posted around? Will intimidating him on a personal level bring justice to your own opinion? It's nauseating really and I personally find that to be quite an "uninspiring", immature behavior, to say the least.
Young Pap: I’m curious about your appreciation of freedom of speech. Let me ask you: if you disagree with someone else’s opinion, do you actually think it is reasonable to post on an enflamed discussion board (or even this blog) his personal information and subject him to ridicule and personal insults? Should you just intimidate him so he would shut up and and keep his thoughts to himself?
Does your concept of freedom of speech mean: if someone is not a fellow countryman, or has a different race, or even if that person has an opinion that you don’t agree with, do you actually gain the right to harass him and even subject his family to public scrutiny? This seems to be the case based on what is the common opinion by people on this page.
Why don’t you post your real name and your home number and address here too? Put in also your Photoshop-enhanced picture of your face, if you like, just for comic relief. That is, if you’re not a coward to hide behind a pseudo name. And while you’re at it, why don’t you post your family’s or your girlfriend’s (or boyfriend’s) photos too?
Warm regards, Mike.
"Mike",
First, you are a hypocrite. When you have no "respect", no "admiration" and no "warm regards", don't pretend to have them. Everybody can see through your fake cheap hypocrisy. Didn't your mom teach you the importance of honesty? Such nonsense reflects your upbringing.
Second, I am just appalled by how screwed you are in the brain; I posted no family photos of anyone, and this is obvious from a cursory glance at this blog post! Thus, your malicious attribution of such photos to me show that you have either short-circuited in the brain or that you are a PAP agent. Which one? you choose!
Third, Amit's personal email address, and homepage and company's name are made freely and easily available by none other than Amit himself, on facebook, linkedin etc. Thus reproducing such info here is merely for convenience to satisfy curiosity (of who the hell this person is) and to email him (so that communication is two way instead of just him to us via newspaper). This can hardly constitute intimidation nor harassment, except, perhaps in the brains of people who are short-circuited i.e. you! And btw, this explanation was given in my very 1st(!!) comment right at the top, so I don't know what you have or have not been reading! Again, go improve your reading skill.
Forth, you accused me of subjecting "his family to public scrutiny". I say: You should go ask your mom why she did not send you to school to learn how to read - what family are you talking about? Find me Amit's family's information on this blog! Where?
Fifth, you asked me why I "intimidate him so he would shut up”? Yet you know it was he who have threatened police report on others (and me)! So you clearly know who is intimidating who. Look, if you want to join YPAP for money and power, all you need is to ask me for an application form - there is no need to fabricate illogical and nonsensical accusations to show-off your appalling bootlicking skill! All in all, your behaviour's nauseating really and I personally find that to be quite "uninspiring" and immature
Finally, why don’t YOU (yes, YOU "mike", the coward aka hypocrite) post your real full name and your home number and address here too? Put in also your Photoshop-enhanced picture of your face, if you like, just for comic relief. That is, if you’re not a coward to hide behind a pseudo name. And while you’re at it, why don’t you post your family’s or your girlfriend’s (or boyfriend’s) photos too? Opps, I forgot - your mom did not teach you to lead by example, did she?
I don't welcome your comment anymore until and unless you do the above. And in case you want to argue that your challenge for me to reveal these personal details is meant to argue that I should not have revealed these things about Amit - nut-head, get it into your screwed-up brain: I did NOT reveal any photo of amit or photo/personal details of his family or of his wife (can you find any picture at all in this blog post?) and all "personal" info abt him are *FREELY* made available by *HIM* on his **PUBLIC** homepage!
With Warmest regard to your mother (i.e. knnbccb)
"Pete" (which is a four letter word, like your "Mike")
> Young Pap: Let me ask you: if you disagree with someone else’s opinion, do you actually think it is reasonable to post on an enflamed discussion board (or even this blog) his personal information and subject him to ridicule and personal insults?
"Mike", let me ask you: If a person has already been "ridiculed" and "insulted" and has already had his "personal" info (which he himself revealed freely and publicly on his homepage) posted, is it reasonable for me to subsequently repost it on this blog? I answer it for you: Yes, it's reasonable, since it will not subject that person to "ridicule"/"insult".
Now, let me also ask you； Is it reasonable of YOU to deliberately get the timeline mix-up, and maliciously paint the wrong picture that I was responsible for revealing his "personal" info and that it was only because of what I did that he was then subjected to "ridicule"/"insult". How low can you stoop? Honesty and uprightness is important in life. Your malicious attempt to twist things around is disgusting! You really need to ask your mom to give you some moral education!
> Does your concept of freedom of speech mean: if someone is not a fellow countryman, or has a different race, or even if that person has an opinion that you don’t agree with, do you actually gain the right to harass him and even subject his family to public scrutiny?
This has nothing to do with race. Your deliberate and malicious attempt to paint this into a race issue disgust me. Once again, I urge your mom to give you some moral education. This is also not abt diff in opinion. See my comment below on war. I did not harrassed him but simply ask him to go to another forum, (Instead, he harrassed me by threatening police report). I subjected none of his family to public scrutiny (can you find any info on his family in this blog article? Of course you can't! So once again, for your mum's honour sake, stop fabricating accusations like a childish immature school boy!). Do you actually gain the right to fabricate accusations against me just because you disagree with my opinion? Disgusting!
>This seems to be the case based on what is the common opinion by people on this page.
I do not think that's the case. But, if you think that's the case, why don't you have the guts to ask "people on this page". Why direct the accusation (fabricated!) at me? Do I represent "people on this page"? So, have some balls! Stop being a coward! Hurl your （fabricated) accusation at the right person - and btw, none of my readers is the right person: Nobody on my blog revealed any family photo or family particulars of anybody (once again: open your eyes! Can you find a photo on this page? or family particulars on this page? How low can you go?). Your unwillingness to address the people on hardwarezone.com who has posted those photos/family particulars (according to you), but to hurl it at my readers and then at me ("Young Pap: Let me ask you" - Please, you are not "asking", you are accusing me but putting it in the form of a fake question. Stop your hypocrisy, as mentioned earlier) is nothing short of cowardice!
All's fair in love and war
This is a war. War? Yeah, you did not read wrongly. This is not abt a diff of opinion on the sale of public housing to new immigrants. This is abt W A R. If you (from India, China, anywhere) want to invade our homeland at the rate of tens of thousands per year, taking over our jobs and women/men, and rendering us a minority in our own country, all done without our permission (and admist our protest), but instead with the help of a dictatorial govt that is committing treason, you gotta call a spade a spade: it's not an emigration with the blessings of the citizens of a democratic country - it's W A R. You are initiating a war on us. You are the invader. The enemy. You want to conquer us. We are defending our homeland against you.
So, as invaders, you gotta be a good soldier and a man and take responsibility for your action in participating in this war and be prepared for the consequence of becoming a casualty of war. Such casualty may include ridicule and insults initiated by us (which is not true in this case), or "ridicule"/"insults" that are in retaliation to nonsense started by you (which is what happened in this case), or even physical harm initiated by either party. Your family may be harmed, emotionally or physically. So?
Every war has its casualties. That's what a war is about, is it not?
Want to invade us, be prepared for us to chase you out - through mental ("ridicule") or physical defence - if necessary. This is no diff from Israel sending Israeli to settle down in Gaza Strip, or China sending Hans Chinese to settle down in Tibet. Here a traitor is importing you to settle down in Singapore.
This is a war.
You are invading us.
You are not welcome here.
We want to chase you out of this country When we are in good mood, we let you make the first move to step on our toes (as has happened in this case), but if we are in a foul mood, we have every rights, as righteous defender of our homeland, to initiate any verbal or physical "attack" on you (which is not what happened in this case)
Say the above 4 sentences 100 times in your head. That will put things in perspective as to whether our action is too much or not too much. THIS IS WAR - AN UNRIGHTEOUS WAR STARTED BY YOU INVADERS AND DEFENDED BY US PATRIOTS OF OUR HOMELAND. When you are out of this country (which you invaded), then, yes, we can be friends, and start talking about diff of opinion over singapore politics. Ha!
> And I believe that the vast majority of Singaporeans are kind and respectful of individuals, regardless of race, creed, or religion.
"Individuals"!!! "Individuals"??? You don't call an invader an "individual", you call him "the enemy"! I have complete faith in the patriotism of my fellow citizens and believe the vast majority of Singaporeans are unkind and disrespectful of invading enemies, regardless of their race, creed or religion.
>Though I do not have an opinion on whether Amit’s point is correct or not,
I do not have an opinion either! Nor am I even remotely interested in his point! In fact, wait a minute, I don't even remember what his point is: is it abt public housing subsidy for permanent residents, or is it abt the said subsidy for foreigners? Nah, I don't even need to know what his point is. As far as I am concerned, this is a ticking time bomb - invaders (tens of thousands literally each year and increasing year by year) invading my country admist my protest while I control myself and hope I will not explode and lash out at them one day.
Thanks to Amit's foolish action (police report, arguing back and forth with netizens etc), guess what, I get the chance to hurl all my frustration with all foreign invaders on him alone! If my action is reasonable (and indeed they are - exposure of photos and family details have NOTHING to do with me), good. If my action is unreasonable (and that's just hypothetical because what I wrote here are all reasonable repost of things written elsewhere), so? Is there such a thing as an "unreasonable action" against an invading enemy? This is war!
Note: I have used "I" instead of "we" because I do not want to speak for other Singaporeans. But I believe I am not far from the truth if I say "vast majority of Singaporeans" think the way I do. Foreign invaders should learn well to keep a low profile in Singapore. Remember, you are here against our will. If Singapore were a democracy, you would have been kicked out of our country (And don't tell me abt the merits of having immigrants. We are not talking abt immigration, but invaders. The distinction bet the two can be found in one of my earliest comments on this page)
You’re one heck of a headjob, Young PAP. It’s really funny.
You say foreigners are enemy invaders? Whew! That’s a heck of a thing to say. Your logic seems to be quite twisted. You’ve been having nightmares recently? Hey, just let it out. Share it with your readers. It’s okay to be afraid of things. Paranoia can be treated. I guess you’ve been watching too many war and espionage novels. Why don't you minimize it so you won’t get crazy ideas into your numbed head?
But besides being paranoid about other people “taking over [your] jobs and women/men”, more importantly, you are a sordid L-O-S-E-R.
LOL and warmly, Mike
PS: Nope, i'm not a PAP agent. Don't be scared. Don't imagine too much. I hope on your response you won't tell me I'm a CIA agent.
You are one heck of a delusional character, Mike! It's really funny because official statistics has already stated that the percentage of Singaporeans had dropped from the high 80% to a mere 65% of the population, in 20 years! Moreover, objective statistics also showed that 8 out of 10 jobs created in the past 5 years have gone to foreigners. Amid these damning statistics, you are still delusional that no foreigners is "taking over our jobs and women/men"! Apart from a rhetoric statement that my "logic is twisted", you are unable to rebut it at all! (whereas I have cited official statistics to prove my case).
It is NOT okay to be delusional. I guess you have been watching too much fairy tales such as cinderella etc. Why don't you try to minimize your delusion and get the crazy ideas out of your numbed head by pouring over Ministerial Parliamentary speech where he revealed the above stats?
Thus, if you are a Singaporean, you are a delusional character that refuses to face objective data. That makes YOU a delusional LOSER If you are a new immigrant of Singapore, hey, why are you even in Singapore? Only sordid losers like you who cannot make it to western countries come here. (Don't tell me you are a westerner living outside of Singapore. Please, stop your delusion!)
PS. Of course you are not a PAP agent. You are just an ass-licking nuthead, trying to lick your way to becoming part of PAP! And so, just as your master have called Chee a near-psychopath, you try to imitate by saying that I am paranoid. As I said, if you really want to join ypap, all you need is to ask me for an application form. lol
Uh, okay..
...so you know a little statistics. Makes you feel cool, ayt? Well, can you take it further? Say, tell us the overall labor and jobless rates of Singaporeans? Don't forget to cite dates and sources.
But, of course, i don't have to delve into that, Prof. A. Hole. That ain't my interest.
Unless you're being overly rhetorical about that "foreign invaders" idea of yours, I'd say you are crazy. Uhm, invaders? Really? How about spaceships? Guns? Bombs?
Hey! Have you been having nightmares recently about foreigners taking over your bedroom, and armed with deadly ballpens and explosive passports?
=)
Cheerfully, Mike.
So, mikey, you don't know any of the immigration statistics! You don't know any of the *official* labour and jobless rates of Singaporeans versus foreigners! Amazing! Because then why the f**k are you here embarrassing yourself by arguing and taking sides (pronouncing me paranoid for eg) on on a topic that you are completely unfamiliar with??? I am amused by your monkey antics! Trying to be a clown? So, go read up on these stats first before attempting to debate me! And read it up yourself! Don't be a parasite and leech on me.
It is perfectly reasonable to use "invasion" as a metaphor/analogy given the stats used to back up said metaphor (and I shall leave it to you to read them up, but shall repeat one here: locals dropping from 80+% to 65% of the population within 10+ years! If a 25% popln replacement of locals by foriengers in a decade cannot be viewed metaphorically as an "invasion", what is it? A "tourism"?)
It is you who crazily link this most appropriate metaphor to crazy ideas of spaceships/deadly ballpens/bedroom and then attribute YOUR crazy ideas to me! How much crazier can you get? I was right that you are delusional and should go get check into a mental asylum.
I don't relish going back and forth with a lunatics like you who stalks this particular blog post twice everyday - first thing when you wake up at 7am, and last thing before you go to bed at midnight. Now, you may be a foreigner, as you claim, but you are in Singapore right now So, there is no excuse for you to not read up on such stats which are easily accessible via even govt-controlled newspaper (eg. the "65%" stat was mentioned in parliament just last week!). So go read up! Or ask those people at hardwarezone, from which you first came across my blog. I am sure they can helpfully give you - the FTrash - a good piece of their mind and fill you in with the stats! Now shoo and go fuck spider or go back to where you come from or go usa (I am sure in usa, they enjoy having lunatic foreigners coming up with crazy ideas of spaceships AND then anyhow link these crazy ideas to the reaonsble ideas of the locals!!). So leave our country! We don't welcome you. I am closing off the discussion here, to save you from crazily stalking this post twice daily. The black banner "Serangoon Gardens for foreign..." is the latest news concerning this invasion/population replacement. So click on it and debate me on that topic. Stalking an outdated post is harmful to your health. I am saving you from yourself. Ha!
I see that this post is still attracting a steady stream of readers daily, even after so many months. Haha!
But seriously, guys, Amit Nagpal is nothing compared to some other fuckers. You guys should read about this Ajit Koshy!
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